I played another game of Warmachine recently. Unfortunately, I had a lot of work-related stuff, class got busy, and long story short, I'm posting it about 3 weeks after the fact. Let's hope it's at least mostly accurate. I swear I'm keeping up with the blog. I have about 3 more reports on the docket, I just need to type them up, and post them. Probably after this coming Tuesday, which is the final for my class. I'll figure out a schedule, and get back to posting regularly.
Anyway, I showed up on a Tuesday, which is Warmachine night at Tower, but which I usually don't have off. I decided to play Skorne again, and fully intended to get some more practice in with Mordikaar.
However, my opponent (who I'm pretty sure is named Eric, but my memory is suddenly shaky about it), said he was playing Menoth. Well, I've been meaning to play Makeda 3 against Menoth for a while, since Errants in particular can be rough on her. So I broke out the Makeda 3 list I've been working on for the last couple of months. In the interest of full disclosure, the fact that the list has, like, 15 models in it may have played a part as well. Oh the excuses I make for myself.
Here's my list:
Makeda and the Exalted Court (*2pts)
*Molik Karn (11pts)
*Bronzeback Titan (10pts)
*Titan Gladiator (8pts)
*Cyclops Savage (5pts)
*Cyclops Brute (5pts)
*Cyclops Brute (5pts)
*Basilisk Krea (4pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Agonizer (2pts)
I've played this list a bunch, but in case you haven't read most of my reports with it, it's an attrition/scenario list with a pretty good amount of flexibility, and a lot of fun shenanigans.
My opponent ran the following Feora 2 list:
Feora, Protector of the Flame (*6pts)
*Judicator (18pts)
*Reckoner (8pts)
*Reckoner (8pts)
*Vanquisher (8pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
*Temple Flameguard Officer and Standard Bearer (2pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
This is a really neat looking list for eFeora. I know she likes to bond the Judicator so all its scattering AoE's can set things on fire. There's plenty more continuous fire in the Temple Flameguard and Vanquisher. The 3 heavies plus colossal make for an intimidating amount of armor to crack, and can lay down a really mean amount of shooting. On top of that, Feora's Feat and spell list make her a dangerous assassin who's pretty hard to get rid of herself.
Deployment
We didn't play a scenario: we just got down to business. Eric won the roll off, and chose to go second, mainly so he wouldn't have to deal with an obnoxious building hemming in his Judicator.
He predeployed the Judicator in the middle-right of the table, behind a hill.
I deployed so I'd be advancing between the building and a forest into the center of the table. If we were coming at each other from narrow angles, I'd be able to tie down more of my opponent's army with my Brutes, and hopefully wade through his heavies piecemeal. I'd also be able to keep my army together on the approach so I could spread out and reduce the damage coming in from the Reckoners and Judicator.
My opponent deployed his three heavies in the center with Feora and the Choir. One Vassal deployed behind the Judicator, while the other deployed in with the Choir. The Flameguard went on the left behind a forest.
No AD on either side, so I started up with my turn.
Turn 1, Skorne
Most of the army ran. The Brutes and Savage put themselves up front, the Bronzeback and Molik went into the center line with the Krea, the Agonizer, and Makeda's unit, and the Gladiator brought up the rear with the Paingivers. Makeda cast Vortex of Destruction, put 4 Fury on the Agonizer, and charged up. The Krea put up Paralytic Aura, and charged, and the Gladiator Rushed the Bronzeback and trampled. The Paingivers advanced, and Conditioned the Gladiator.
A little mismanagement on my part meant I'd be taking a Threshold check next turn, but it would be on a Thr 10 cyclops. I'd planned to advance Molik, and have him use Fate Walker, then Condition him clear with the Paingivers, and have him advance the rest of the way at the end of the turn, but I forgot, and ran him instead.
Turn 1, Protectorate
My opponent allocated one Focus to each 'jack except the Judicator, which looked after itself.
Feora cast Escort on herself, put Ignite on the Flameguard, and charged up. The 'jacks all ran, as did the Choir. The Vassal on the right gave the Judicator an Ancillary Attack, which landed on the Krea and Makeda, setting them both on fire. The Vanquisher also got an Ancillary Attack, which scattered backward into nobody.
The Flameguard ran up behind a forest, and that was that.
Makeda 3 isn't very squishy, but being on fire is never a good thing. Otherwise, the turn hadn't had many surprises.
Turn 2, Skorne
Fire did nothing.
Makeda leached Fury, and one of the Brutes (which had no LoS to my models, but did have LoS to a Reckoner) passed its Threshold check. Makeda upkept Vortex of Destruction.
The right Brute charged a Reckoner, and did a bit of damage. The Left Brute ran up to engage all three Menite heavies. The Savage ran to engage the Judicator and deny it aiming bonuses. The Agonizer ran up, and used Spiritual Affliction to deny Focus allocation. Makeda's unit advanced, and Makeda topped off the Agonizer so that it caught all four 'jacks with its aura.
The Krea advanced, and used Paralytic Aura again. The Bronzeback and Molik put themselves in position to charge the Menite heavies next turn, and the Gladiator continued to bring up the rear. The Paingivers advanced, and cleaned up Fury on the Gladiator and Krea.
I was jammed into the Menite force pretty well. The Agonizer can be a huge pain against armies which need 'jacks to do their heavy lifting, and there weren't any great ways for my opponent to get to it. Meanwhile, Molik and the Bronzeback were in position to do some damage next turn.
Turn 2, Protectorate
My opponent wasn't happy about being unable to allocate to his Warjacks, and decided to set right to fixing that problem.
Feora upkept Escort, but dropped Ignite. The Judicator got a Focus because Menoth doesn't Allocate: Menoth gives.
The Choir sung the Hymn of Battle, giving all 4 'jacks +2 to attack and damage rolls. One Vassal got a reckoner to Ancillary Attack the Brute that had charged last turn (the one in between the 'jacks and the Agonizer), for light damage. The Judicator couldn't reach that Brute around the Savage, so it punched at the Savage a couple of times, damaging it heavily (and catching it on fire), but failed to kill since it had missed once. The Vanquisher tried to finish off the right Brute, but did little damage with its one initial attack. The second Vassal gave the Judicator an Ancillary Attack, which it used to fire a rocket. The Agonizer and Krea were hit, and the Agonizer caught on fire, but suffered no damage.
The left Reckoner hit the left Brute, but didn't take out any Aspects. The right Reckoner walked away from the Right Brute, took some damage from a Free Strike, and walked up to the Agonizer. The Bronzeback Counter-Charged it, and took out its club. It missed the Agonizer.
Finally, Feora walked up, and hosed the Agoinzer down with 2 boosted Flamethrower sprays, doing just enough damage to finish it off. She also recast Ignite on the Judicator.
The Flameguard used Iron Zeal, and ran to screen the Menite Warjacks.
This had been a pretty demoralizing turn for my opponent, and he was just about ready to concede. I had very good charge lanes on his army, and at least two decent shots at Feora herself in Molik and the Bronzeback. He'd at least managed to kill the Agonizer, which had really been harshing his mellow. However, he stuck with it, if only to see what I'd do.
Turn 3, Skorne
I decided to try to take out Feora.
Fire did a couple points to the Krea, and one to Makeda, which she transferred in order to Leach a little more Fury. Makeda leached her Fury, and upkept Vortex of Destruction. There were Frenzy checks for the Brutes, but they passed.
The Krea went first, used Paralytic Aura, and tried to bite a Flameguard with little success. Makeda's Unit went next. One Exalted Guardian advanced into the Flameguard Officer and Standard Bearer, while the other tried to maneuver around, but died to a Free Strike. Makeda advanced, into some more Flameguard, and used her Feat. The first Exalted Guardian killed the Standard Bearer and wounded the Officer, which opened the unit up to being targeted by spells.
Makeda didn't waste any time. She cut down one Flameguard, and used Blood Boon to cast Eliminator onto a group of 4 others. Despite Vortex of destruction boosting all the damage rolls, she only killed the original target, and took a 2" advanced deeper into the unit rather than shoving through to the Warjacks. With a melancholy sigh over opportunities lost, she hacked apart all the Flameguard she could reach, and cast another Eliminator at a cluster of 2 Flameguard and a Vassal of Menoth. She did no damage despite boosting heavily. Oh well.
The Gladiator Rushed Molik, and the Paingivers Enraged Molik and the Bronzeback, and Conditioned the Gladiator and the Krea. Then Molik charged, intending to kill the Flameguard Officer, and Side Step twice to get to Feora. He missed. Welp, he wouldn't be assassinating much. I had him finish off the Reckoner in the Bronzeback's way, kill a few more Flameguard to load Makeda up with Transfers just in case, and sit tight.
The Savage shuffled out of the Bronzeback's way, and put a couple damage on the Judicator. The Bronzeback charged the Judicator, game itself Beat Back with Train Wreck, and punched its way to Feora with 4 open Fury and an initial War Gauntlet attack left. It rolled... not so well. Feora was still very much up at 9 hit points.
Er... Um...
The Brutes tried to duff up the other Reckoner and the Vanquisher, but their Mat 5 Pow 12 attacks weren't making much headway.
Interesting. Well, I wasn't in any immediate danger of losing. Makeda was camping three transfers, and was halfway into a forest, far enough from most of the 'jacks to feel safe. The rest of my army, on the other hand, was going to feel the hurt, especially now that Feora could allocate.
Turn 3, Protectorate
Feora upkept Escort, Allocated 2 Focus to the Judicator, two to the Reckoner, and one to the Vanquisher, then the Judicator gave itself another Focus because Menoth cares.
The Choir sung the Hymn of Battle. The Judicator pasted the Savage with one swing, and the Bronzeback with two more, then sat on its remaining Focus. The Vassal nearby had it use its Flamethrower with Ancillary Attack, but it missed everything it shot over.
Feora went, sprayed down the Krea, the Reckoner and Makeda's other Exalted Guardian with her Flamethrower, but only caught the Guardian on fire. Then she Feated, gained 3 Focus, and immediately Allocated all of it: one to the Reckoner, and two more to the Vanquisher.
The 3 surviving Flameguard heroically ran again to interpose themselves between Makeda and Feora.
The Vassal on the Left used Ancillary Attack to have the remaining Reckoner crush the Left Brute. The Vanquisher advanced, and crushed the right Brute, and the Reckoner advanced, and crushed Molik.
Hrmmm... Lots of crushing over there, and not a lot of my army left to attack the Menites. Last turn, I tried an assassination run because it seemed likely to work out. Now I'd have to assassinate Feora just because I had nothing left to play attrition with.
Turn 4, Skorne
After a careful analysis of my options, I decided that getting Makeda into Feora was my best bet. Makeda took a little more damage from Fire, then upkept Vortex of Destruction, and Leached her Fury.
First, the Krea advanced, and boosted a shot at Feora, hoping to reduce her to Def 7. It missed.
Then Makeda advanced around the edge of the Flameguard clump blocking her from Feora, and dropped an Eliminator on them. Despite needing 7's to kill on 3 dice, she only killed one. She did manage to use that move to get out of the forest, and into melee range of a Choir member. She killed it, and dropped another Eliminator on the Flameguard with Blood Boon, this time catching a Vassal, but failing to kill. However, she did kill the last two Flameguard, and the 4" advance got her just within melee range of Feora.
Feora, meanwhile, was just outside of range to get the Arm boost from Escort. Which meant that I'd be rolling at dice -2 on damage. I also needed 7's to hit, and had 2 Fury left on Makeda. I could either buy 2 attacks, needing 7's on two dice, or take 1 attack, and boost to hit. The way my luck had been going, I opted to boost to hit, even if it meant I only had a 50% chance to take Feora out.
I hit...
...but rolled a 10, leaving Feora on 1 bit box.
I had one trick left to play. My Paingivers advanced, one of them carefully positioning itself in front of the Krea with its back arc positioned so my Gladiator was just barely fully inside it.
Then the Gladiator Rushed itself, Advanced, and used a Two-Handed Throw to hurl the Paingiver at Feora. The Gladiator hit the Paingiver, and launched it 6 inches, barely making range to Feora.
It missed Feora.
But! The deviation was only an inch, meaning that Feora was still hit with a Pow 12. I needed a 6 to do that last point of damage to Feora, and win the game.
I rolled a 5.
I conceded.
Victory to the Protectorate!
Thoughts
What a great game! What I should have done (no question) on my third turn, was to try to remove as many Protectorate 'jacks as possible. If I'd focused on them, I probably could have taken out the Vanquisher as well as the Reckoner with Molik, and the Bronzeback had a decent shot at the Judicator with a little help from the Savage. If I'd managed to do at least that much damage, I would have been in a good position to retreat with Makeda, and finish off the Protectorate 'jacks next turn.
I can't question that going for the assassination attempt was more fun. That is the lure of Makeda 3, and this time I let myself be swayed against my better judgment.
The list performed well as always, and the more I take Cyclops Brutes, the more impressed I am by them. Two Brutes and an Agonizer held of 3 Menite heavies for a critical turn, and I almost got to keep the Agonizer. The heavies were poised to do a lot of damage to the Menite army, but I got greedy chasing a wild assassination run. Hopefully, I'll remember the game plan next time: Attrition first.
My opponent played a good game as well. The terrain boxed him in a little early on, and the jam I set up really threw him off balance for a turn. He collected himself well, however, and took advantage of a good opportunity to wipe out my heavies on his third turn.
I liked my opponent's list a lot. Menoth runs 'jack heavy and combined arms really well, and this list has a lot to do both in melee and at range. I wasn't too worried about the ranged assassination with Makeda 3, but it would be a serious concern for just about anyone else. On top of that, the 'jacks have plenty of tools against both heavies and infantry.
That's it for now. I do have more reports coming up. It'll probably just be a couple of days before I post them. Thanks for reading!
Marx from the PP Forum has some general advice for this Feora 2 list:
ReplyDelete"Hmmm, good question about what I would recommend... first, put the TFG on the Deployment Line, and everything behind them (when placing the Judicator, put a TFG in front of it first so you leave enough space). Next, if you go first, run everything.
If you go 2nd, you have to judge your distances approximately. The Judicator has a 19" walking threat on its Rockets: if anything of your opponent's looks like it is within 5" of the midline, do not run the Judicator. Move the TFG up in Shield Wall, move the Judicator up behind them, and lob out AoEs. Repeat every turn (using the TFG mini-Feat the turn before they get charged, ideally). As the lines cross, fire your shots with your guns FIRST, charge with your Ignited TFG SECOND (that's important most of the time).
Reckoners should be flanking and looking for either super-important solos or LoS to the warcaster/warlock every turn: If neither is possilbe, use them to tag whatever the Judicator will be shooting at (RAT7 from Flare is better than RAT5 without it!). With Escort, a Reckoner can get a double boosted cannon shot at a target 22" away from it: if you have LoS and a clear lane, you can hit that target. And if 1 hits, the other is probably going to hit!
Vanquisher near the middle with Feora and the Judicator. Keep the Choir close to the Judicator (most important target). And always keep the Judicator protected as long as possible. 95% of the time you are singing Battle every turn: exception is against Cryx where you will SOMETIMES need to sing that "No Spells" song on your warjacks. Rare, though.
The only time the Judicator should be charging into a Skorne battle line is if you can engage 2 or 3 heavies at the same time, it has Battle and Ignite, and is loaded up with 4 Focus. POW24s with MAT8 is a very good place to be, but you have to kill ALL of the heavies (or at least come damn-near close) for it to be worthwhile. Otherwise, screen it and shoot.
And remember, your win condition with this list is 1 of 2 things:
1. Fragile warcaster: get them on fire, get them within Feora's CTRL range, and get them hurt enough with AoEs that the fire will finish the job. Keep Feora camping Focus and screened while this is happening.
2. Sturdy warcaster: Shoot them with both Reckoners (get Flare on them), pound them with rockets until nearly dead: finish off with Assaulting Reckoner or Feora herself (using Feat if needed). Feora can 1-round a full-health Arch Angel (I've done it!), she can handle most warcasters.
Lastly, remember to use Feora's Feat to take out dude-swarm lists. Light your own stuff on fire (TFG on mini-Feat turn move up in Shield Wall and only kill themselves on 12s on 2d6: walk up in Shield Wall, smack each other with their spears to light everyone on fire. Move Feora up behind them, Feat all those Fire Tokens on opponent's army, laugh maniacially). Caustic Presence is a thing: abuse it, but keep Feora safe (she's sturdy, but sturdy isn't enough against concentrated assassination attempts!). "
"That is the lure of Makeda 3, and this time I let myself be swayed against my better judgment."
ReplyDeleteI know your pain! I did something similar against Doomie2 recently with my take on your Brute brick. Should have been murdering heavies, but I got cute when I saw I could get both Molik and Makeda into Doomshaper while "jamming" Mulg. Things went awry when I neglected that killing a blocking Axer would give Doomie 3 extra transfers. I burned through them and almost got him dead, but not before a Smite from Mulg ended the run. And I could have started scoring...
One thing I love about the Mak3 Brute crew is that it takes the patience and scenario/attrition vs. assassination decision part of Warmachine a boils it down to a very acute mixture. With so few models but the ability to do immense work, and an emphasis on applying pressure to a concentrated part of the battlefield, she really makes you own up to your judgment calls!
Sounds like it was a great game and it's good to see y'all posting again now that the holidays are on. Hope classes went well.
Ha! Yep. It really is too tempting sometimes.
ReplyDeleteYou're absolutely right about this Makeda 3 list making you own up to your calls, especially the aggressive ones.
It is good to be posting again. I'm still getting my schedule for next year figured out, but I *should* be able to keep posting regularly. My goal is to do one post a week, and at least half battle reports. I'm not sure if I'll be able to stick to that, but that's the goal. Ultimately, I want to do Adepticon, GenCon, and WMW this year, since I can get to all of them.
Class was a lot of fun, and thanks for the well wishes. I don't have the results from the final yet, but I have a good feeling.
Had a pretty nutty game against a very similar list today -- eFeora, Judy, double Reckoner, and Flameguard. My opponent only had one Vassal, but had eEiryss, Wracks, the Covenant, and Rhoven in place of the second Vassal and the Vanquisher.
ReplyDeleteShort version is I went up in my best take on the bunker, tanked some shooting and moved through his jam to tank an alpha with aggy out, then got hurt bad on attrition (losing all lights and Molik) due to some aggressive play using a Judy throw of a Reckoner into Molik and eFeora feat. I felt on the attritional backfoot so I used the Bronzeback and Gladiator to each throw a Reckoner out of Makeda's way, then she went in on Feora herself and narrowly put the Menoth caster in the dirt.
Important notes--Judy does Allocate, not Gain, so you can use Aggy to stop it. I'll put up more notes later to get the discussion of this matchup going, or maybe we can move it to the Forums. It seems that Menoth denial doesn't take Makeda's tools away for the most part, though the Book stopping spells means you need to be careful about when and how you want to use Fatewalker.
Nice! Power attacks are pretty sweet, and it's always fun when the heavies start throwing each other around. The bunker is hard to set up against Rhoven, what with his ability to Cleanse off Safeguard and Paralytic Aura.
ReplyDeleteHow did the Aggy get taken out early? That Menoth list certainly has the tools to do it, but if positioning could have saved it, you would have been able to stop that Judicator throw.
I need to get more games in with this list against Menoth. In theory, it's a tough matchup. Between the Covenant denying spells and Errants/Zealots/Martyrdom making killing things complicated, Makeda doesn't have a lot of her usual tools available. I think the list is strong enough to work through this, but I need more games in to be sure. Otherwise, I need my second list to be strong enough against most Menoth.
Also, I have a couple general Makeda 3 questions: you are running a Tyrant Commander and Orin Midwinter instead of a Savage in your Makeda 3 list, right? I've been thinking of making the changeup so Makeda has more game against Butcher 3 and pHaley. How often do you feel like you want another light in the mix making attacks? How much does Orin contribute in the average game?
(sorry if you're not the one running this list, I remember it from somewhere though)
I find myself using Power Attacks fairly often, but perhaps that because I gravitate towards jank when I get impatient or see victory as possible. Plenty of BB 2H throws, though I suppose those happen more with Rasheth. I often find with Mak3 I want to hold Bronzie for lategame.
ReplyDeleteI am indeed running her with TyComm and Midwinter, and post as DrillbossD on the forums. I haven't tried with the third lightclops, but as a result of discussion on the Skorne FB group about using her as a Cryx/Khador drop I'm considering doing the borderline sacrilegious and dropping Aggy and TyComm for a Shaman. Not for all-comers, but in a potential split with Fatty whom I feel good playing into Cygnar, Menoth, maybe Circle and (I've heard) Legion except pVayl.
I don't miss the light as such but I really wouldn't mind a boostable gun. The extra animus, Spirit Blade, and Craft Talisman all have big potential with Mak3.
On Orin --
He does work for me pretty consistently. He ruins eStryker and Butcher3's days. He nearly saved me from a Rahn assassination (a hair out of the aura). Arc Lightning into the back of my own heavies can help with high Def jam, which for me has been Daughters and Pygs. Also have killed a full unit of Widowmakers sent to hunt him and 3/4 handlers in an opposing eHexy list that got too cute with fury denial.
The main thing for me is to identify early how important he is and how much he gets the bunker. Usually he's not super crucial so he can go be a problem solver with Lightning, but he can tilt opponents who don't have the tech to get him all by himself.
Neat. I'll give Orin and the TyCom a try (also possibly Orin, Extoller and Gobbers). The Savage usually does a respectable amount of work but there are definitely times when I don't need the third light, and I'd much rather have spell denial, lightning, or more movement on Makeda.
ReplyDeleteThe Shaman is really good. I tried it in an earlier version of the list, and having access to any of my Animi on demand was great. I didn't get much use out of the gun while I was playing it, but I've definitely run into situations where I've wanted it when I didn't bring the Shaman.
Rasheth is good against Legion. I haven't played that many games with him, and I haven't gone against pVayl with him yet. I think with good timing of the Feat, and Locker/the Buddy System to stop Rampager from ruining his day, he can play against pVayl too. I'm not 100% sure, since Incite makes his stacking debuffs less of a problem than they are for a lot of Legion.
Crumbs, forgot to explain the Buddy System in case you're not familiar. It's when one of your Titans does an arm-lock/headlock on another. Neither can "advance" until the locking Titan activates. That stops Rampager from drawing a Titan out of formation.
DeleteAlso, nice to know I was right about that being your list. I didn't consciously make the connection that you were DrillbossD on the forum, but you definitely sounded like you'd been running this list too.
Yep, I'm familiar with the Buddy System but I have yet to use it in play. Definitely something to do with the Rasheth 6 Titan Herd -- which is a blast by the way. Just played it into eBorka and it was a slugfest.
ReplyDeleteI also am pleased to announce that after playing Warmachine for 6ish months I finally got my first game against Cryx, and it was Mak3 into Gaspy3! I played the build with the Shaman and Midwinter, while he was playing the Midnight Carnival Gaspy3 with Bane Riders, DJ, Canker, Thralls, Darragh, and support (including a Midwinter mirror). I sent Molik in to scalpel out BLT and got greedy when I thought I could also get Darragh... losing Molik made the attrition against a mobile Cryx list nigh unwinnable, but I nearly got the personal melee assassination on Gaspy with Makeda. Had my Gladiator (last heavy I had) not frenzied, he could have thrown a Bane Rider into Gaspy to give me great killing odds.
I know you've played her into Cryx a handful of times, including in that NFL league. Do you have the rules for that somewhere, perchance?
I don't have the exact rules for the NFL league handy, since they were on the Focus and Fury website before they shut down. I'll get in touch with Benesh and Jamie (who organized the event) and see if they have the exact rules. Otherwise, I'll trawl my email inbox, and reconstruct them from memory.
DeleteIt's a really fun format to do a long term event.
I have played Makeda 3 into Cryx a couple of times. I like the matchup a lot against everyone but the Dennies. I would still play Makeda 3 against them if I had to, but those are the two 'casters I'm bringing my Cryx drop for.
Makeda 3 vs. Cryx was actually the matchup that sold me on the Savage in the list instead of support or another Brute. It was doing a good amount of work against infantry with Beat Back + the Feat, and it has gotten to Tartarus at least once that I remember.