I'm still fooling around with Mordikaar as a potential partner in crime to Makeda 3, and I've been pretty happy with how it's worked out so far. I'm still playing around with the points, and this time, I ran the following list:
Void Seer Mordikaar (*5pts)
*Tiberion (11pts)
*Despoiler (10pts)
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 5 Grunts) (11pts)
*Tyrant Vorkesh (3pts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Paingiver Bloodrunners (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Tyrant Commander and Standard Bearer (3pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Agonizer (2pts)
This is a variation on a pretty successful tournament list* that has cropped up as a partner to Fist of Halaak. It's primarily an attrition list. It can do good work against both infantry spam and heavy armor, though an extreme armor skew would probably overwhelm it. The idea is that the Nihilators and Cetrati keep coming back, putting damage where it's needed, and holding zones until it can push the enemy out. There is decent scenario pressure as with every solid recursion list, and a couple assassination vectors, including surprise Void Spirits from Despoiler.
*Jason Watt and Martin Hornacek have both run this list with a Krea, Drake, and 2pt support solo in place of Despoiler. The list originally had a Bronzeback in place of Tiberion, although Hornacek is running it with Tiberion now. Both have had good results with it.
Caleb is still learning the ropes with his Rhulic 'casters, and brought General Ossrum in tier:
General Ossrum (*5pts) - State of War Tier 4
*Ghordson Earthbreaker (19pts)
*Grundback Blaster (3pts)
*Grundback Blaster (3pts)
Ogrun Assault Corps (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Horgenhold Forgeguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Herne and Jonne (3pts)
Horgenhold Artillery Corps (Leader and 2 Grunts) (3pts)
Ogrun Bokur (3pts) - Client: Ossrum
Thor Steinhammer (2pts)
Lord Rockbottom (2pts) - heavily converted to have neither a hat nor a peg leg
An Ossrum gunline with a focus on AoE's. This list should be very strong against infantry in general, and I can see it being a huge problem for Cryx infantry spam and similar lists. Otherwise, there's a very strong ranged assassination via the Earthbreaker's Quake torpedoes, a respectable melee presence in the Forgeguard (and the Earthbreaker as well if it wants to get to melee), and some spot removal from the Blasters. This list probably wants to sit just inside of a scenario to contest it while shooting off as much of the opposing army as it can every turn. Eventually, it should be able to get enough of a line on the opposing 'caster to get a Knockdown with Quake, and finish the job with boosted shooting.
The Tier benefits from State of War are: T1: One unit can AD. T2: For every 2 units in the list, place one 5" by 3" Trench template within 20" of your table edge. T3: If the army includes two or more solos, Ossrum can start with his upkeep spells in play on friendly models/units. T4: If the army includes three or more Warjacks, models in Ossrum's battlegroup gain +2Spd on the first turn of the game.
Scenario and Deployment
We played Destruction, a center scenario with a 12" by 6" rectangular zone placed with its longer sides facing the player deployment zones. Each player also controls an objective at the left corner of each zone. Destroying your opponent's objective is worth one point (and is necessary to control the zone), controlling the zone is worth one point, and dominating the zone is worth two points. The objectives have an ability that lets a player destroy a friendly model within 4" of an objective to prevent the objective from being destroyed if it would be otherwise.
It's pretty hard to win Destruction on scenario unless you can flood the zone very early, and keep your opponent out of it. However, Destruction is a killbox scenario, which makes assassination a bit more likely.
Caleb won the roll-off, and decided to go second for better Turn 1 shooting opportunities. He placed one of his Trench Templates behind a hill in his AD zone, and the other behind a forest on the right side of the table. He predeployed the Earthbreaker behind a forest in front of the control zone.
I deployed Mordikaar and his battlegroup roughly in the middle of my deployment zone, next to a forest. I put the Nihilators behind the forest on their left, and the Cetrati behind a hill on their right. The Tyrant Commander went right of the Cetrati, while the Agonizer and Paingivers went behind Mordikaar and his beasts.
Caleb chose to Advance Deploy the Artillery Corps, and put his Assault Corps opposite my Nihilators, backed up by Ossrum and one Blaster. The other Blaster deployed with the Forge Guard opposite my Cetrati, which the Forge Guard a pretty strong against. Rockbottom deployed with the Forgeguard to give them boosts, while Herne and Jonne deployed just behind them to support them with shooting. Thor deployed behind the Earthbreaker.
I Advance Deployed my Bloodrunners opposite the Forgeguard. Bloodrunners should be good at killing Forgeguard, and even if they just slowed them down, they'd keep them off my Cetrati. One Bloodrunner was seperated out a little so Mordikaar could put Hollow on the unit.
Caleb Advance Deployee the Artillery Corps opposite my Nihilators (you can see them in the picture of his deployment above). Not only would it help the Ogrun out against the infantry, but with Arcing Fire, the Artillery Corps might be able to start dropping damage on Mordikaar and my Paingivers. Caleb started with Snipe on the Artillery Corps, Fire for Effect on Herne and Jonne, and Bullet Dodger on General Awesome himself.
Turn 1, Skorne
I activated Tiberion and Despoiler first, Riling enough to load up Mordikaar for next turn, and running. Mordikaar cast Ghost Walk on the Nihilators to help them get through the forest, advanced, and cast Hollow on the nearby Bloodrunner to make their unit Undead and Tough. He also put 2 Fury on the Agonizer.
The Cetrati ran to a hill, and the Tyrant Commander ran up next to them. The Nihilators ran through and around the forest, hoping to draw a lot of fire by blitzing toward the Rhulic gunline. The Bloodrunners ran around a forest on the far right, hoping to avoid LoS from the bulk of the AoE's on the other side of the table.
The Agonizer and Paingivers ran up behind Tiberion and Despoiler.
Standard first turn runfest. The Bloodrunners were well positioned to stall the Forgeguard, and the forest limited the number of shots I'd face with them next turn. Meanwhile, the Nihilators were about where I needed them to be, and well spread out. The heavy stuff in the list was going for the zone, hoping to draw Caleb's list out, and make him fight for it.
Turn 1, Mercenaries
Ossrum upkept his spells for free (part of being able to start with them in play), and allocated one Focus to each Blaster.
The left Blaster walked up, and tried to spray my Bloodrunners, but didn't quite have LoS through the forest to affect the one it could see.
The Assault Corps advanced, and shot at the Nihilators, killing one with a decent scatter. The Artillery Corps lobbed a shot at Mordikaar, which was barely out of range, and scattered onto a Nihilator instead, but failed to kill it.
The right Blaster, Bokur, and Ossrum advanced to support the Ogrun and Artillery Corps line. Thor waled up, and Tuned Up the Earthbreaker's damage rolls. The Earthbreaker threw one torpedo at the Bloodrunners, which scattered in the wrong direction, and one at the Nihilators, which clipped one and forced it to pass a Touch check. It fired its cannons at the Cetrati, but was barely out of range.
Herne and Jonne advanced, and lobbed a Scattershot into the Bloodrunners, which killed two of them (and loaded Mordikaar up with two souls). Rockbottom ran to just behind the Forgeguard.
Caleb's first turn shooting had been pretty lackluster, but any kills on turn one is decent. He hadn't advanced much, meaning I'd be staring at at least one more turn of shooting from the whole army, and probably a third turn of shooting from a couple of pieces I didn't engage on my third turn. That said, Caleb's conservative advance hadn't done him any favors in the scenario game. If his next turn didn't do enough damage - to an army with access to Revive - I stood a good chance of jamming him out of the central zone, and winning by scenario.
Turn 2, Skorne
Mordikaar Leached his Fury, and upkept Hollow for free thanks to Despoiler's Black Arts ability.
The Cetrati issued a Shield Wall order, and advanced, getting just inside the zone. The Tyrant Commander and Standard Bearer advanced, and the Tyrant Commander used Overcome on the Nihilators to give them Pathfinder. The Nihilators ran, one of them just barely managing to engage the Ogrun Bokur and Artillery Corps on the hill.
Tiberion and Despoiler ran forward again, and Riled up some more. Tiberion got his toes into the zone next to the lead Cetrati.
Mordikaar advanced, Revived the two dead Bloodrunners into charge lanes on the Forgeguard, and used his Feat. For one round, friendly models in his CTRL would gain +3 Def and the ability to push any enemy who misses them with an attack d3" directly away. The Feat would catch nearly everyone in the list.
The Bloodrunners, now at full strength, charged. Three charged other Bloodrunners, and three charged the Forgeguard. Why charge my own Bloodrunners? In this case, to abuse their Shadow Play ability: whenever a Bloodrunner deals damage, I can place another Bloodrunner in the unit in formation anywhere within 1 inch of it. I moved the Bloodrunners charging other members of the unit first, so they successfully completed their charges, then I moved the Bloodrunners charging the Forgeguard. Three charging Bloodrunners easily hit the Forgeguard, and did a point of damage thanks to Anatomical Precision. That allowed me to place the other three into melee with more of the Forgeguard. As long as I didn't place them in melee range of their initial charge targets, they'd still get an attack. With a little careful positioning, I ensured that each of them killed a Forgeguard as well. With more than half the unit dead, the Forgeguard had to take a Command check. They failed, but Rockbottom spent a Coin token to make them pass.
Lastly, Agonizer ran up behind Tiberion, and the Paingivers ran up again, getting into a safe-ish spot behind the front lines. And that was that.
I was in a pretty good position. Getting the Bloodrunners into the Forgeguard so effectively was essential to ensuring the long-term survival of the Cetrati and warbeasts, and they were my bid for a scenario win. Now, Caleb's right flank was tied down for the turn, and the rest of my army was at +3 Def (except a couple of Nihilators on the far left). Hopefully, that would be enough to let me hold on for the turn and engage the gunline in earnest next turn. Of course, Caleb has a lot of AoE's on his side of the table, and they don't care much about defense.
Turn 2, Mercenaries
Ossrum upkept Fire for Effect on Herne and Jonne, but dropped Snipe from the Artillery Corps and Bullet Dodger from himself. He allocated one Focus to each of the Blasters, and one two the Earthbreaker.
Ossrum activated, Feated for defense (the +2Spd part of his Feat was pretty moot at this point, but the +2Arm would be very useful on my next turn), and walked to within a few inches of the Ogrun Bokur. Then he cast Snipe on the Earthbreaker.
The Bokur took a swing at one of the lead Nihilators, and killed it. The Artillery Corps sent another shell sailing at Mordikaar. It missed again, and scattered onto the Warbeasts. The Ogrun Assault Corps opted to land one huge CRA on Tiberion to try to kill the Agonizer cowering behind him rather than lob AoE's into the Nihilators. They did a little damage to both Tiberion and the Agonizer, but didn't kill the Aggy. The Blaster next to the Bokur fired a fully boosted Spray at a Nihilator, but missed thanks to Mordikaar's Feat.
The Forgeguard tried to kill some Bloodrunners, but the only one they hit Toughed. The Blaster next to them sprayed three Bloodrunners with boosted attack rolls, but only killed the Knocked Down one. Rockbottom shot his Fire gun into the Bloodrunners, and killed another one.
Thor Tuned Up the Earthbreaker's damage rolls. The Earthbreaker Aimed, and fired a pair of Quake Torpedoes at the Cetrati, knocking them all down, and doing serious damage to the two it had hit directly. The followup shots from its Repeating Guns killed off one of the damaged Cetrati and Vorkesh.
Herne and Jonne advanced, and shot the Cetrati with their Scattershot, killed another one with the direct hit, and laid some more damage on the others with blasts.
Caleb had done a lot of damage to the Cetrati, but not enough to the rest of the list. Next turn, I'd be charging the Nihilators into his Ogrun, and starting to put assassination pressure on Ossrum. I'd also finish up the Forgeguard and their support on the right with my Bloodrunners. Most importantly, I'd start scoring points, and start to threaten the Earthbreaker with the Agonizer and Tiberion. Caleb didn't have any real plan for contesting the zone once I'd started scoring in it, so he conceded.
Victory to the Skorne!
Thoughts
I played a solid game, and didn't make any big mistakes. My list was an incredibly strong match for Caleb's, and the scenario favored a strong attrition game like Mordikaar can bring. I just pushed those advantages hard, and ended up in a winning position that Caleb would need to do some serious fighting to come back from.
I like this version of the Mordikaar list so far, but I'm not 100% sold on Despoiler vs the more popular (and proven) beast loadout of a Krea and Drake plus a 2pt support option. Going up against a gunline list in a center scenario didn't really test its weaknesses, although I could definitely have saved myself from a lot of damage by bringing a Krea along for the Cetrati. Still, Caleb's list didn't play with much of a screen, and therefore got itself jammed down fast.
Caleb made some mistakes in target selection on turn two, but I feel his biggest mistake was Advance Deploying the Artillery Corps instead of the Forgeguard. A gunline like his list needs a screen, and with a model selection limited to Rhulic, it's either the Forgeguard or the Highshield Gun Corps. If Caleb had AD'd the Forgeguard, he could have set up a good screen for his shooting units, and I also would have had to place my Bloodrunners before them. That would let Caleb avoid the matchup if he wanted to, and put them in a better position for his shooting to support when the Bloodrunners did come for them. That many blasts in the list should wipe out the Bloodrunners pretty easily if enough guns have a decent angle on them.
In terms of Caleb's list, I think it's pretty solid. There's not a lot of wiggle room if he's determined to play Ossrum in tier and bring the nigh-obligatory Earthbreaker. I might make space for a second unit of Forgeguard, a unit of Gun Corps, or Brun and Lug, depending on what Caleb's thinking for the list. Mainly, it needs something to slow the enemy down and get the most out of its shooting. It can probably cover that by advance deploying the Forgeguard, probably in front of a Trench or two for them to run into on turn 1.
Thanks for reading!
I've had a really great time gaming and blogging this year. I'll be playing more games, taking more pictures, writing more reports, and even painting more models in 2015. I'm even looking at possibly doing Adepticon, Gencon, WMW, and maybe others if they're close enough.
Bonus pictures!
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| This little dork |
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| This bigger dork |
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| Work in progress Makeda 3 |
Happy New Year!
Thank you for the blog, it has been a pleasure to read for a budding Skorne player :)
ReplyDeleteI hope you keep it up through next year as well!
One question i have for you is regarding Makeda3 and eXerxis. I've heard a bunch of people say they play similar games but eXerxis does it better. You seem set on sticking with Makeda3. Do you disagree with that perception or is it just that you didn't get to eXerxis yet?
Thanks! The blog is a lot of fun, and I'm glad you're enjoying it.
ReplyDeleteI am sticking with Makeda 3 for now as one of my main Warlocks. I've only played eXerxis once, and I'll be playing him at least a few more times over the next few months to see how I really feel about him.
My first impression is that he doesn't play all that similarly to Makeda 3, although they do have a few things in common. They're both good at hit-and-run maneuvers, they both have very decisive offensive Feats, and they both can mix it up respectably well in melee.
Xerxis having Mobility and Ignite are huge points in his favor. Both are great spells, and will let his army hit first, and hit very hard against most opponents. It's going to be very hard to out-threat Xerxis, and on his Feat turn, he has an additional accuracy and damage buff to ensure the alpha strike is game-changing. His support also lets him run shooting a lot better than Makeda 3, and I think Aradus Sentinels and Basilisk Drakes are going to show up in a lot of eXerxis lists. Finally, I love that he makes me consider picking up Ferox. Give them Ignite, Rhadiem, and the Feat, and they're not half bad.
That said, Xerxis 2 is a lot more fragile than Makeda 3, mostly due to the huge base, but also because he has weaker defensive stats overall. Def 13 vs melee means he *really* wants to avoid being charged, and must have a Krea pretty much all the time. He's got less Fury to camp than Makeda, and wants to use even more of it to swap Ignite and/or cast Mobility, while Makeda can camp up to 5 if you need her to, and can refill after a very productive turn thanks to her Feat. His huge base also means it's a lot easier for opponents to get attacks in on him. He also gains a lot less by being in combat himself, since Ignite is often best used on another model, while Vortex of Destruction can only be on Makeda.
Makeda has two other distinct advantages. First, she's better at clearing zones herself in relative safety, since she can Blood Boon Ground Zero off her initial, cast Fate Walker, and still be camping 3 Fury. Second, while Xerxis' Feat lets his list hit hard and remove threats, Makeda's Feat lets her explode an infantry screen with just a couple of models, and lets her play very aggressively by giving her effectively 8 to 16 or so Fury to play with. The Feat on its own will suffice against a lot of jams, and Xerxis will have to get through them with a mixture of shooting and melee, which might take more turns.
So Xerxis 2 runs a faster list. He stays in the second rank, doing hit and run charges to kill a thing or two, and help his army clear jams. He'll run a more varied spectrum of stuff than Makeda 3 will, including plenty of ranged beasts, and infantry. Makeda 3 will play a list more oriented toward trading, and Makeda herself will be doing a lot of the work personally. It seems pretty different, at least for now. Xerxis 2 might well prove better than Makeda 3 in the long run, but I think he plays a pretty different game.
I also think he'd make a very good partner with the right build. With some shooting, he can cover her weaker matchups, and she can slot in against assassination lists, gunlines, and infantry spam, which I feel she'll handle better than him. I'll be putting him on the table at least a few times this year, and I'll update here with my thoughts.
I've thought about X2 as a Mak3 pair. No table time with him yet, so it's hard to know, but I think it could work given that his speed buffs could let him wait out a control feat (as long as he doesn't get melee assassinated). If I can make a double Archidon list or a hardcore gunline work with him, I'll be sold.
ReplyDeleteI'll second that Mak3 is tankier than X2. Battle Driven means that after taking one hit her defense stats are flat out better than X2's, and the small base with 2 native Shield Guards makes even eCaine players sweat about whether an assassination is possible.
Another key difference is that Xerxis can and wants to spread his beasts out while Makeda tends to play with a tight formation that takes it on the chin and explodes in response. Her game generally involves getting alpha'd, while Xerxis wants to be doing the alpha.
I'm going to try a couple of things with him, most of which are some flavor of combined arms. Double Aradus Sentinel + Raider seems like a good module with him, since they can potentially put 4 shots into the opponent's AD zone at the top of turn 1. Also that Feat turn on them. Two to three Drakes also seems good, although I'm debating whether I want them all in his battlegroup for Mobility, or whether I want to run Zaadesh with 2 Drakes and a Krea, for the shenanigans he can pull with Perdition and/or a Mat 8 Pow 18 Weapon Master Krea (!!!)
ReplyDeleteI'm on the fence as to whether I should try to run a screen (Bloodrunners maybe?) or just let my ranged beasts be my screen, shooting away until the enemy gets to them and they die. I'm still in mindboggle mode with X2, and I want to include ALL the beasts, because he works so well with them. I have the model now, so when it's put together, I'll start doing reports.
Nice... I have X2 unassembled as well. I enjoy Makeda3 a lot and I'm probably going to take her to the next big tournament. Some tweaks I'm considering are to remove the Savage to bring Orin Midwinter (to drop Makeda3 vs Khador), Extoller (Eyeless sight for Molik Karn vs Bradigus + Magic weapons) and bring beast handlers to max. Hopefully I will have time to test it soon but i don't get a lot of games in. I'm wary of weakening the core of the Makeda list too much but the trade offs seem worth it. Any thoughts on it?
ReplyDeleteNice! Replacing the Savage with Orrin and an Extoller should definitely work. I'm considering the changeup myself, although I still haven't gotten around to trying it. You do sacrifice a little hitting and staying power to shore up most of Makeda's really hard matchups with those two models. Two Brutes I'd say is the minimum for your front line with this kind of list. The Savage can do good things, but can also be cut for support.
ReplyDeleteMaxing the Paingivers with the extra point is solid. I'd consider Swamp Gobbers too, to give Makeda a cloud to hide behind with Fate Walker. More Beast Manipulation is definitely better than less, and having the extra two might give you a little extra utility.
You could also do either Orrin or an Extoller and a Tyrant Commander, which is very good with Makeda 3.
I ran Orin/TyComm for a while and really, really like TyComm. He hits something nasty with vortex and has high MAT. Pathfinder for non-BD makeda and pain givers can be super clutch, as can Press Forward on paingivers or makeda. On Makeda, it gives her non linear threat with no damage tradeoff due to vortex, and synergizes very well with Fate Walker.
ReplyDeleteCurrently trying Gobbers and Extoller. My thought is that vs Cryx a well positioned cloud and Aggy can keep debuffs off of Mak and Molik, while the extoller lets me leverage terrain much better and opens the molik pacman option against incorporeal jam.
The melee hitting power of the list is reduced, but in the end Orin and the Extoller are both capable of doing work. There are 5 available souls and you can bet your opponent will happily give you at least one on the turn where you sacrifice Aggy to blunt the alpha. Be wary of electroleaps and Magic Bullet, though.
Speaking of electroleaps, try to identify early when Orin is going to be more relevant for lightning than for Null Magic. His best kills so far for me have been Aiyana and Holt (both!), 3/4 paingivers who were jamming my bronzeback, and a full unit of widowmakers that were sent after Orin.
Basically, you definitely lose some meat but you gain lots of utility and denial. As long as you have a plan for everyone to do work, they won't be deadweight.
Also with Gobbers--Makeda at 19/21 v shooting is very upsetting to a lot of people.