So, after the last game against Tyrant Grexeris, it's abundantly clear that pKrueger has one hell of a hard time against multi-wound infantry. Lesson learned. Painfully.
After a little thinking, I'm going to add eKrueger into the list of casters to try out as a second caster opposite pBaldur: his spells will mesh VERY well with the druids, and I like his feat much more.
But anyway, moving on to part 2 -- Mohsar.
Pros:- Fury 8 (!)
- Maltreatment gives him effective Fury 9 (!!!)
- Difficult to pin down (Sands of Fate, Circular Vision, Eyeless Sight)
- Absolutely fantastic spell list
- Useful infantry-clearing spray
- Lots of board control abilities
Cons:
- Durability of a newborn kitten: he will require dedicated protection
- So-So Feat: crippling vs Hordes, useless vs Warmachine
- Resource-heavy spells/abilities (Maltreatment/Sands of Fate)
Overall, Mohsar seems like a warlock that will flat out ignore a lot of the usual difficulties when it comes to placement, line of sight, and intervening-model issues, all while speeding up his army something fierce and making a mockery of his opponent's advance. He's got plenty of tricks to deal with light infantry (Dust Howler, Crevasse), some things to deal with heavy infantry (Curse of Shadows), and a multitude of shenanigans to help his own or hinder his enemy's warjacks/beasts (Sunhammer, Curse of Shadows, Pillars of Salt for Slamming/blocking, his feat, etc.). Honestly it was a bit difficult coming up with cons for him, as everything he's apparently "bad" at (assassinating warlocks/casters himself, moving quickly, standing up to anything more powerful than a small gust of wind) are easily compensated for by his fantastic spell list and board control abilities. Poor SPD? Teleport with Sands of Fate. Weak stats vis-a-vis assasination runs? Ignore them and boost the living daylights out of it. Vulnerable as a wet paper bag in a blender? Hit or Miss feat? Crotchety looking model? Who cares, he can have 9 Fury a turn! 9, for god's sake!
One thing I'm looking forward to with Mohsar is that there is little reason not to take a Gnarlhorn Satyr - I love the model, but have not been able to fit him in my previous lists due to it being a little pillow-fisted. Mohsar is uniquely suited to run the satyr in my opinion, as Pillar of Salt provides him with nice targets to slam models into for additional damage, Mirage lets him get better charge lanes to do it, and Curse of Shadows negates the pillow-fisted disadvantage quite a bit.
A Geomancer will also be nice to have with Crevasse, Curse of Shadows, and Mirage -- Megalith's healing ability is an automatic go-to ability for maltreatment, so he's in regardless of cost; plus he'll help the Gnarlhorn against heavies.
I'm also going to field a unit of Wolves or Orboros with him whenever possible - they're the best targets Circle has for Sands of Fate, cheap tarpit/throwaway models are kinda nice to have, and lastly I already own the models (so why not?).
Lastly, I'm going to try out a Gorax - it seems like it'll work terrifyingly well with Maltreatment, and I feel the need to get over my dislike for the model itself since he seems like such a precocious little scamp.
After a bit of trimming, here's the 35pt list:
Mohsar 35pt
Mohsar the Desertwalker (*5pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Gnarlhorn Satyr (8pts)
* Megalith (11pts)
Druids of Orboros (Leader and 5 Grunts) (7pts)
* Druid of Orboros Overseer (2pts)
Wolves of Orboros (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
Blackclad Wayfarer (2pts)
Druid Wilder (2pts)
Boosting up to 50pts, I first want to expand the Wolves of Orboros to a full unit, and add in their UA for that phenomenal mini-feat. I also want yet another beast in this list (effective 9 fury! 9!); I'd originally thought about the Warpwolf Stalker, but he's a bit too fragile for the way I play, and I've got enough tricks already that some of his are just redundant. Instead, I'm going to try out the Feral - I like the look of the plastic model, and from all accounts it's more of a heavy wrecker than the Stalker, and that's really what I want in this case.
Finally, I'm adding in shifting stones - I didn't add them to the 35pt list as I feel they always just get underfoot, but with 4 warbeasts their utility is definitely undeniable.
Mohsar 50pt
Mohsar the Desertwalker (*5pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Feral Warpwolf (9pts)
* Gnarlhorn Satyr (8pts)
* Megalith (11pts)
Druids of Orboros (Leader and 5 Grunts) (7pts)
* Druid of Orboros Overseer (2pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
Wolves of Orboros (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Wolf of Orboros Officer & Standard (2pts)
Blackclad Wayfarer (2pts)
Druid Wilder (2pts)
I like this list; I'm finally comfortable with the amount of anti-ARM available, and the model count is much closer to what I'm used to with Khador. There's something about having a unit of cheap, disposable infantry to throw under the bus at a moment's notice without a second thought that puts me more at ease with the list itself.
I'm going to try either the 50pt Mohsar or pBaldur list tonight in a game against Tyrant Grexeris, and hopefully teach his annoying little elephants who's boss.
I'll need to get some more practice in against Mohsar. He has good mobility and denial against Hordes, and a huge CTRL.
ReplyDeleteMostly I'm also saying hi.
I was just trying to make a Mohsar 35 list and thought of your article.
DeleteYou included the Overseer, but I originally had no blast damage to beat high defense. Even then, the Overseer is pretty hard to utilize so offensively.
What are your thoughts? Any other counters that would go well?
Hey MasterRabbi! I've run into the same problem often enough, but besides the Overseer, Circle really doesn't have a lot of AOEs to deal with high-def infantry (outside of spells, that is).
ReplyDeleteMohsar brings a few good sprays to the table (Crevasse being arguably the best, as his phenomenal magic ability 8 will allow you to hit most high-def models in the spray). Otherwise, the Overseer really is possibly the best option we have.
Try this trick -- moving him up to within a range, cast his devouring spell, then activate Mohsar and put a pillar of salt or two between him and anything dangerous. Then, move a Gnarlhorn up near him - if they want to get to him, they'll have to take out 1-2 pillars AND be counter-slammed by a gnarlhorn. Hope this helps!
Whoops, forgot to mention - the Lord of the Feast, Pureblood Warpwolf, and Blackclad are my 2nd-string hitters for dealing with high-DEF, and depending on the enemy unit, Trampling isn't a bad idea.
ReplyDeleteYou can also slam your own models across enemy high-def infantry. Since I play Skorne, I don't always have options in my list for those extra hard to hit infantry, so I always keep in mind that collateral damage is automatic.
ReplyDeleteHere's a possible scenario using the 50pt Mohsar list presented here.
Lead with Megalith in order to tempt any WG or Kayazi clouds into tying him down. Then use the Gnarlhorn to slam him into their midst. The Gnarlhorn will have no trouble hitting, but won't do much damage against Megalith's high Arm. The Slam movement will be good.
Now activate Megalith, and have him forfeit movement. Pop his animus for -2 Def to pretty much the whole unit. Now the Wolves move in and get as many as they can with 2-or-3-model CMA's.
That's just a thought. Hope it helps.
Whoops, I forgot to mention that you can reverse the order too. The main benefit of slamming before activating Megalith is that he can make attacks if he happens to be in melee range after the slam.
DeleteActivating Megalith first, using his animus, then charging in does give you more control over the angles. You can also place him with Shifting Stones.
Yeah, this should work especially with Megalith since he's steady, which would mean you wouldn't need to sac move, right?
DeleteTramples still need to roll to hit, I did that once and was very irked to remember that (1 WG that wouldn't die cost me the game for the second control point).
I ended up adding the Stone Keeper for his AoE, and hopefully to encourage me to not overextend, but bid my time.
Great comments!
Sadly, if you're slammed or thrown, then activate in the same turn, you must forfeit movement or action at the start of your activation. If you're knocked down, you'd also have to forfeit the other one in order to stand up.
ReplyDeleteIt stops slams and throws from becoming a speed boost for Steady models.
Well Caleb, I'll keep posting here until you update again, or you ask me to stop.
ReplyDeleteI have to say I keep underestimating Curse of Shadows. It is such a useful spell. You're going to convince me to start running Vorkesh one of these days. I'd miss the flexibility of buffing my Cetrati, but not having to worry about Force Bolt or Curse of Shadows (or Hunter's Mark, or Crevasse... man, maybe I *should* start running Vorkesh).
In fact, I'd say it might be worth it to run two Geomancers just to cycle that spell around a little more.
After some consideration, I do think you should try the list without Druids. I'd run Tharn Bloodtrackers + Nuala (Mirage and Reform would be nuts), Wolves of Orboros + UA, or Nyss Hunters (is Sands of Fate faction only?).